Exploring Timor-Leste

Birgit Hermann on Timor-Leste's aquatic wonders

• Jonty • Episode 10

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Fascinating conversation with Birgit Hermann, a German / New Zealander who has lived in Timor-Leste for a decade. She is a free diver and mountain biker who has worked extensively on marine protection and education.

Her website - www.birgithermann.com

Website - www.exploringtimor.com

TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@exploringtimor

YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@ExploringTimorLeste

Books - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D82D3TBJ

Birgit:

It is one of those places where you can really discover someone with a bit of an adventurous mindset and someone who would like to figure out things themselves, this is. The absolute paradise for this. There's not so many places and countries left in the world where it's not all presented to you on a golden plate. But if you actually make the effort of coming here, it's so rewarding and it's really authentic.

Jonty:

Bondi. Welcome to exploring Tim Este, the podcast that talks about Southeast Asia's best kept travel secret. I'm your host Jte, and I'll share firsthand insights, expert interviews and practical travel tips. Whether you're a traveler, a cultural lover, or just curious about places rarely covered in the mainstream. You're in the right place. Let's explore two more. Less day. today it's my pleasure to be joined by Birgit Herman, who is a longtime resident of Dili and Timor Este. First of all, what brought you to Timor Este?

Birgit:

Hi Johny. It's starting to sound a bit scary, but actually I arrived almost 10 years ago. So in December this year will be my 10 year anniversary of Touching Ground, and initially I came here as a one year volunteer with the New Zealand VSA program.

Jonty:

And what are you doing now?

Birgit:

I have been working in the wider development sector over the last 10 years and always in a community based. Support role. I've been very involved in marine conservation, climate adaptation work making sure that the small scale fishing continues to be possible for generations to come. Like making it really sustainable and helping on all levels. So I had the feeling after so many years of working here in a role where I was in the managerial role that it's actually more time to ensure that I'm passing on all this leadership knowledge to others to come. So the last two years I've been more focusing on leadership development, coaching, mentoring. Sometimes if there is a need stepping in short term for organizations, helping them go through a transition, a crisis or change management. But yeah, so I'm a bit involved in a lot of little projects and have a huge passion for the ocean and support some youth groups in the ocean conservation work.

Jonty:

Wonderful. And you live in dhi, but you did start life living on Roo Island, is that correct?

Birgit:

Exactly, yeah. I think the reason I'm still here is because my initial stint in Timor Less started on at Togo Island, back in 2015, 2016, when I came, it was very difficult to reach. There were not many boats going, there's still not that many boats going, but at that stage it was even more complicated and it was just such a. Different experience for me to where I came from and being in this quite tough environment, like really cut off from my normal social circle, so conveniences I think, yeah, it was a very rough start, but also a really intense, immersive, beautiful start. The last years I've always been living in dili and sometimes you forget actually that the rural teamwork is really why I am here. So it's really nice to get back to those where it started, the initial ideas rather than the day-to-day. Parts of Delhi, which is a big city by Timo. It's relative.

Jonty:

It's a relative term. Yes.

Birgit:

It's the biggest city we have in the country, so that's why it's a big city. But the day-to-day situation in Delhi you drive around with a scooter and get even in a scooter stuck in traffic. And there is. Obviously like air pollution and problems with the rubbish and the plastic and the roadwork and all of those things. And it's quite good to take a moment sometimes to go back to the origins and actually the reason I'm here is not because of the day-to-day living in dhi. it's more because of the beautiful parts in the rural areas of Timor-Leste.

Jonty:

So how would you describe Timor Lette to somebody who's never been.

Birgit:

It is one of those places where you can really discover someone with a bit of an adventurous mindset and someone who would like to figure out things themselves, this is. The absolute paradise for this. There's not so many places and countries left in the world where it's not all presented to you on a golden plate. But if you actually make the effort of coming here, it's so rewarding and it's really authentic. But yeah if someone is on the lookout for an easy. Retreat, relaxing. Everything is just at your fingertips. This is not the place where you want to go, but if you want to nurture your adventurous soul, that's the place.

Jonty:

And as you say, it's good'cause there's actually increasingly few places you can do that. There's so many parts of the world now where they've all got the luxury resorts and you can have that five star experience that it's more special not being able to have that. And actually you still have a real adventure these days.

Birgit:

Exactly, and development is catching up here. So you actually have a few of those, I wouldn't call'em five star resorts, but you have now actually a few places, hotels, restaurants and so forth where you can put the AC on and just cool down and take yourself a bit away from the roughness that is out there. The moment you're leaving the capital, there's so much to discover if you have that open mindset.

Jonty:

So what are some of your favorite places in the country?

Birgit:

There's quite a few. My big passion is the ocean. I'm a free diver. I love spending time next to the ocean, in the ocean, above the ocean. So most of my weekend and week long retreats in the sense were actually something ocean related. And there at Toba Island, not just because my journey started there, but it's such a beautiful place and it has two different coasts. One where all the boats arrive where it's. A little bit easier to get to and it's easier to reach. And even the coral reef is much more gentle. You don't have to have any kind of deep free diving skills. You can just go out there and snorkel at the surface. Versus on the other side, on the west coast it's a little bit more difficult to get to. You might either have to hike there or you take a boat around the island for a good two hours or one and a half hours there you have those really traumatic walls to either free dive or scuba dive, yes some really traumatic landscapes underwater, and we are so blessed. We're in the middle of the coral triangle and it's the most. Biodiverse waters in the world in this region around a few years ago was a very interesting survey done. At that time it was actually classified as one of the most biodiverse spots anywhere in the world. So it's just very special to do that there. And it's so easy to access once you're here. You don't need to go out by boat very far. You can actually snorkel most of those places, but also around the coast you have a lot of things to do. But then. On the other hand, inland, I'm a mountain biker, so anyone who has a mountain bike or a dirt bike, it's phenomenal. There's endless opportunities of going up and down mountains. It's a very small country, but we have in both like the mainland, we have a 3000 meter mountain in the middle and on the, it has a thousand meter mountain. You have the beautiful coastline, but you don't have to put much effort into climbing big hills there. They're just next to the

Jonty:

coastline. There's no shortage of hills in Timor Este. So if you prefer for mountain biking where would you recommend that people go? Biking in Timor.

Birgit:

There's now a Tim Maurice guy who's offering mountain biking tours, and that's really around moi area, which is just below mount the highest mountain. And that's really nice.'cause there's also the cultural aspect in that area. So it's not just the mountain biking. He actually have the opportunity of getting rid of an insight into how the. The cultures and the mountain areas are,'cause they're obviously a little bit different'cause the climate is quite different at 2000 something meters versus the coastal areas. So around there it's quite easy to access by Timor standards.

Jonty:

Excellent. In terms of the underwater side of things, what are some of the coolest things that you've seen on your free diving and your snorkeling around Timor?

Birgit:

The big drawing card is of course the whale migration. We are very lucky that we have the southern whale migration coming through, and they're relatively reliable between October, November now with climate change. Some of the reliability is a bit changing, but there's a good kind of six weeks to eight weeks where we see the blue whales, they're called picnic plume whales, because they're like about three meters shorter than the his whale. They be pretty big. We're still, they're still the largest animal on the planet. And then we also get sperm whales and other whales passing through in that season. You could be lucky, you can actually just see them from the coast. You could be sitting in one of the ocean cafes around dili or further along the coast around bau, and so you can actually see them from the coast. They're coming really close. So even if you don't want to go in a boat, you may actually just sit on an elevated spot and would look out for them. That is such a once in a lifetime experience seeing actually a whale in the water, but it's also. Not guaranteed that you see one in the weight order. It's much more reliable that you see them from the end. But in general, year long. Like crossing the channel from Dili to at you. You always have a very good chance of seeing dolphins. Really big pots of dolphins. We have around at, there's a resident population of melan headed whales, pilot whales. So they're there year round. So if you just spend a lot of time in a boat going around you will see those kind of things. Other than that, we have quite a few in uh, curious ones in, in uh, both on the mainland as well as at, and it's really fascinating. So yeah, when I came they, they were not as frequently spotted and there was quite a bit of work protecting the sea grass meadows, which is the. Than the food, the nutrition for Dugongs. And it seems to have had an effect, like there is actually more regular sightings of dugongs now, which is really nice. And if somebody doesn't know what a

Jonty:

dugong is, how do you describe a dugong?

Birgit:

It's a sea cow in a sense. Some people are more familiar with manatees, which is, part of that family, but they're having some similarities to manatees, it's like a big sea cow and it just eats all day. A lot of sea grass, apparently up to 70 kilos. The sea grass is really small stuff like it's really like grass. Bigger than a Terra film Cow. But they look really cute and they're totally harmless to us. They're just curious and it's quite shallow

Jonty:

waters, they live in, so you don't have to go necessarily diving. You could see them while snorkeling.

Birgit:

Yeah, just two weekends ago, I saw one, I filmed one for three and a half minutes.'cause this one was circling us for a good four and a half minutes and it was really shallow. It was maybe going down four meters. This one I saw in, in, at the, uh, the ER reef there. But yeah, other one in Tacito, which is just next to the airport. It's a very accessible site. And of course you have to be lucky. It's not that you can go there and you hope it's still a big bay. But compared to places, anywhere else in the world, if you are going there a few times, chances are you may actually be one of the lucky ones. What you guarantee to see is all the colorful fish life and the coral fish. And the beauty around timor's water is actually that the coral fringe, so the extra coral is really accessible. You don't need a boat for that. You can just swim out. It's just next to the coast. And that's where you see all the. Like the clownfish and the little beautiful other. Fish in all types of colors.

Jonty:

Lots of nemos and Yeah.

Birgit:

Yeah, a lot of nemos, but of course also a lot of Doris and other fish.

Jonty:

And I like the giant clam. I was in Samoa a few months ago and it's a big thing. That's the giant clam sanctuary and it's all quite touristy, but just off in the inner reef from at, there's some incredible giant clams, which just I wasn't expecting.

Birgit:

Yeah, there are. So in the last six to eight years with the conservation work that happened with the coast communities, there's more and more places that are having it. A localized ban, meaning you can still enter as a tourist, you just pay a small access fee of like maybe$1$52. And then there is restrictions to fishing and it has really paid off. You can see in those places that two weeks ago when I spent that time snorkeling around and I saw the dugong, there was also really big lobsters and it's really nice. And here it hasn't compared to some Southeast Asian countries. There hasn't been so much dynamite bombing.'cause in some places people use dynamite to help with the fishing, which is a very destructive method. Meaning it's not just that the fish life suffers from it, but actually there's permanent damage to the coral reef. But it hasn't been that widely used here, like very sparsely meaning there's yeah, much more healthy coral.

Jonty:

He understand that's quite a big push from the government. Was it last month there was a Oceans Festival that I saw the President and the Prime Minister in Blue and won the matter Trident Did you go to that?

Birgit:

Yeah. I have to say it's, I've reflecting a lot since I first arrived here in late 2015 to where we are now.'cause in five years of my time I worked. Really specifically in, in ocean conservation, and it was even difficult in the beginning finding Timor staff would be recruited'cause no one had actually the knowledge but now it's so nice. They're the main, the public university, UNTL has in the last years, their own degree program for fisheries. Ocean related work. And then another university has also something in that area. So there is actually a lot of Timorese who are now much more knowledgeable about it, and many more programs started. The youth groups in particular are very active. Timor is a very young country, not just by how long it has been independent, but also by population the Timorese. Youth, which is anyone up to 35 years is very hungry for information about best practice and how you can actually mobilize and change things. And there so many initiatives from the simple, like beach and ocean cleanups and getting rid of all the marine day to actually more long term educational activities in schools some of them. Very successful in getting scholarships to go to International Ocean conferences and bring that knowledge back. A group I'm supporting a lot is called Underwater Cinema, where they bring people out, snorkeling and free diving to really introduce people from a. Very personal connection point of view with the ocean. The idea is if you see it with your own eyes, you actually have a connection. You want to protect it.'cause not that many people in Timor less know how to swim. So it starts with the simple idea of actually allowing people to see it with in the safety of a life jacket. And once they. Upgrade a bit than actually doing snorkeling and diving. And it's really great with the current government the Prime Minister has his own workforce Blue Economy unit which started a bit more than a year ago. And every year in June when there's the International Ocean Day, they used it as a platform to promote very heavily and connect the ocean with the mountain communities.'cause there, used to be a bit of a disconnect, just people don't travel much. So people will live, work in the mountains. They don't really have any connection with the ocean. But this blue economy unit has done a lot of public events created a children's book and the matter material to also bring it to the mountain communities because anything that's being put in the rivers, in the little creeks, in the mountains, that then come to the rivers, especially once the rain season starts and there's a lot of water movement obviously all of that ends up eventually in the ocean. So the, just to make it a bit clearer that something that be is being thrown away in the mountain. Has actually a clear connection to Ocean Life and. It was a really great event. It was a week long event of different activities and also putting a few locally managed marine areas in place around that week. But it was a big parade. People dressed up in fancy outfits and looking like octopus and sharks. From a government point of view there, there's definitely a clear understanding. There is alu economy, meaning like the ocean and anything that's relating to the ocean. So the recommendation and the service providers there's actually, monetary aspect to that side as well. Not just an environmental one.

Jonty:

That's amazing to hear. Things can be quite hard to do in Timor, but equally they can make quite big changes quite quickly. It's a, it's a relatively small country. The prime minister, the president get involved personally in these activities and they can really make a big difference. Now if you have visitors who are coming to Timor to enjoy the underwater life, is there anything you'd recommend that they bring with them?

Birgit:

It's good to bring your own mask and snorkel and maybe also fins at least a size of fin that fits in your suitcase. Travel fins. Yeah, travel fins. I'm a free diver. I like having long fins.'cause then you can actually keep up with those animals that you would like to hang out with. Definitely bring your mask and bring your snorkel.'cause there's very limited supply to buy and hire here. And you don't wanna miss out. You want to have something that fits so that you can actually enjoy anything rather than having to deal with a leaking mask.

Jonty:

Exactly, and there'll be lots of opportunities for snorkeling and diving.'cause as you said, after Drew Island is probably the epicenter. But there is quite a lot along the northern coast of Timor. Now being a long time Dili resident, is there anything you'd recommend that visitors check out if they have a day or two in Dili, when you have visitors to come visit you, where would you take them?

Birgit:

I think you haven't seen Dili properly. If you haven't made an attempt to go to the crystal ray statue, which is really marking the eastern side of the city. So there's a stretch of beaches, some with little cafes and restaurants. And then just at the very end of the dili. Outskirts. You have a big Christie race statue where you can climb up or you can walk around if you couldn't even hire bicycles now and cycle around. So it's quite complete. I would highly. Encourage you to go there and on both sides of the Crystal Ray statue is quite nice snorkeling. So that's where you can put the MA to good use.

Jonty:

Excellent. Are there any common misconceptions about Timor Less day that you are aware of that this is an opportunity to clear up?

Birgit:

People think it's unsafe and it has been a long time that the country had some internal conflict. It's like we are really talking about 2006, so I have never felt unsafe in this country. So the only thing is that sometimes it's very difficult in dili to move around at nighttime to places, but it's not unsafe. It's the difficulty of finding transport if you don't have your own one. So it's more the inconvenience rather than it being unsafe.

Jonty:

And I get asked, but obviously I'm not in the best position to comment on this if you've got female visitors to Timor, should they have any concerns?

Birgit:

Of course it's a place that has also incidents where anywhere in the world, unfortunately, there's incidents that are specifically targeted at female. So that happens here as well. I think on the big scheme of things compared to other places they're very infrequent. So I think to start with I would just more encourage people to be, and that actually applies to both men and female, to be a bit more conservative in what you wear, honor the local dress code.'cause people are dressed very conservatively, meaning you don't see much skin and you don't see very short skirts or very short shorts. If you are exercising, it's a different thing, like once you're actually in movement. But then if you are really walking around and sitting in a cafe, or especially if you're outside dili in a rural area, just out of respect So that's I think something that is just a little bit also for your own safety. You will always stick out because you are looking different, but it just makes you stick out in a different way. If you are a little bit. Like you could go to a church rather than look like you're just going for a swim, even that you're in the middle of a city.

Jonty:

Do you have any kind of fun fats or interesting observations about Timor life, which might be a, something a bit different that people could expect to see, when they come here?

Birgit:

I think the funny thing is still that it's the small things. It's not like one big thing that's funny in a sense, but it's what you get creed the whole time. People call you malai. The moment you're not a team, Maurice. You're malai and you're causing a lot. Especially kids and you're causing a lot of excitement if you are driving through places. And I remember when my parents were here and we were going out to some of the rural areas with a car. Even there, there was a lot of shouting, a lot of welcoming and a lot of oh malai. So it even happens if you're in something like a fast moving vehicle. But then it's a funny and friendly

Jonty:

one.

Birgit:

It's a very friendly, it's a

Jonty:

friendly thing though. It's a very open, welcoming. It's still more the novelty factor

Birgit:

And then the moment you stop maybe to buy something in a small kiosk. So you're getting a lot of attention. A lot of kids come and are curious about you. And then yeah, but then it's it's I think I've, I come across the same situation in other places where for some reason they always call you Mr. I'm surrounded with other girlfriends. Like they always come as Mr. Mister, so a few things that, just a bit cute. Yeah, there's always a lot of excitement. I think the excitement is the fun part about it.

Jonty:

So when you leave Tim Oreste to go on holiday or to go home, what are the things that you miss?

Birgit:

It's a little chaotic here, and when you are here, you always feel like you need a break from it. But then when you're actually overseas, you're sometimes in realizing how everything else is, always is a system. There's a process involved and it's just so inflexible. Life's definitely

Jonty:

more boring. It's exhausting, but then you go leaving you, that was so exciting and just interesting and new stuff happening

Birgit:

And there's like here, it's always you just, if you wanna make something happen, you can make it happen. And there is just not a process that you can just replicate the next time it works like this. Again, that's not how it works here. It's always you. You have to find your way and then things change. Products are not available anymore. A person who help you out, it's now no longer living here and no longer in this function. And so suddenly the process changed. So I think. That's the chaos part. Everything always feels chaotic.'cause it's not just that you can establish something and then you're, next time you're doing it. Simple things like you go to a supermarket and you like a certain type of cheese. No. Next time when you're there, this cheese is not available anymore. You have to wait for, I don't know how many weeks for this cheese to be imported again. So there's simple things like this. If you like something, just buy it immediately in bulk. But then yeah, sometimes when I'm actually back in places like New Zealand or Germany, which are my two anchor points it's a bit overwhelming about all the options you have and there's always a system in place that you need to know exactly from A to B, every step of the process, and please don't come up with being creative and innovative. So versus in Timor, I think it's the place where you just. You have to be innovative. You have to be creative.'cause otherwise you miss out.

Jonty:

Now is there anything that we've not touched on today that you think listeners might find useful for planning their trip to team or making the most of their time here?

Birgit:

It really opens doors if you learn just a few words of Teton. And even me after having been here for 10 years, I wouldn't call myself very fluent. But the more you know, the more you understand'cause people are actually naturally shy. So if you make it easier to approach people, you get so much more back in return. So I think that's, yeah, just make the effort of learning a few words, a few sentences and it will make everything so much more meaningful.

Jonty:

And thankfully, it's a relatively straightforward language. You tend to pronounce words as they're. Written, so that does help. There is obviously complexities to any language, but relative to some other languages it's not Chinese, It's a bit easier.

Birgit:

And if you know a few words of Portuguese, Spanish or Indonesian p Hasa Indonesia, then you can figure out a few things quite nicely.

Jonty:

Excellent. Thank you so much for your time. That's been a fascinating insight into life in Timor and particularly the ocean side of things, which I think is a big draw card for visitors. So thank you so much for joining me today on the podcast.

Birgit:

Much appreciated. Looking forward to listening to it.

Jonty:

Thank you so much for listening to exploring Timor Less Day. If you've enjoyed today's episode, please consider leaving a rating or review. It really helps more people discover the show. If you have any questions or feedback, I'd love to hear from you. Drop me an email at exploring Timor lessDay@gmail.com. Until next time, or Bodo ADEs.